Thamizh existed in India amongst the Dravidians several thousands of years before. Sanskrit was a language that was brought by Aryans those who entered India through the Kyber and bholan passes. Sanskrit is as such, much younger language than Thamizh. Thousands of words were borrowed from Thamizh into Sanskrit. Few examples are neer (water) and meen (fish). The linguistic research work done by the two greatest English linguists Caldwell and Burrow proves this fact that, Sanskrit has borrowed words heavily from Thamizh.
Sanskrit scholars attempted to Sanskritise Thamizh several centuries ago by the liberal use of Sanskrit words. They argued that such a liberal mixture enhanced the beauty of the Thamizh language and compared the hybrid language to an ornament made out of equal number of pearls and corals. Some of the Jain and Vaisnava Sanskrit scholars employed that style, however, it failed because of the naturally rich vocabulary and literary wealth of the Thamizh language.
Sanskrit scholars, however, refused to acknowledge the real merit of Thamizh literary works. The most funny aspect in here is almost 75 % percent of the Sanskrit scholars those who ever lived in India and contributed to Sanskrit are born in the Tamil country, spoke the Thamizh language, and lived as Tamilians. Some example that can be quoted here are, Dandin the author of the Kavyadarga in Sanskrit, was a scholar from Kanchipuram in the Tamil Nadu. Sankara the exponent of Advaita philosophy, was again a Tamilian. He mentioned in his works Saint Njanasampantar, the crusader against Jainism in South India. Raamanujar, the originator of Visishtaadvaita philosophy was a Tamilian and he lived every close to Kanchipuram. Scholars, who analysed the life-style and arts of the people of the Tamil country, wrote many works on the Bharata Naatyasastra, the Carnatic music and on astrology.
But these Tamilians turned Sanskrit Scholars, instead of appreciating Thamizh, worked for the growth of Sanskrit, for reasons which may not be appropriate to be mentioned here. They called Thamizh as the language of the mortals and Sanskrit as the language of Gods. But history has punished them rightly for all that they have did, Sanskrit is no more spoken anywhere in the world now.
Though the efforts to Sanskritise Tamil no longer exist, the repercussions of those earlier efforts are still felt in society. One effect, of course, was the virulent opposition to the use of Sanskrit words in Tamil, and this opposition has not subsided even today. This could be one reason why Tamilians still refuse to accept North Indian Languages.
vasanthan.b@rediffmail.com posted by Vasanthan
Sanskrit scholars attempted to Sanskritise Thamizh several centuries ago by the liberal use of Sanskrit words. They argued that such a liberal mixture enhanced the beauty of the Thamizh language and compared the hybrid language to an ornament made out of equal number of pearls and corals. Some of the Jain and Vaisnava Sanskrit scholars employed that style, however, it failed because of the naturally rich vocabulary and literary wealth of the Thamizh language.
Sanskrit scholars, however, refused to acknowledge the real merit of Thamizh literary works. The most funny aspect in here is almost 75 % percent of the Sanskrit scholars those who ever lived in India and contributed to Sanskrit are born in the Tamil country, spoke the Thamizh language, and lived as Tamilians. Some example that can be quoted here are, Dandin the author of the Kavyadarga in Sanskrit, was a scholar from Kanchipuram in the Tamil Nadu. Sankara the exponent of Advaita philosophy, was again a Tamilian. He mentioned in his works Saint Njanasampantar, the crusader against Jainism in South India. Raamanujar, the originator of Visishtaadvaita philosophy was a Tamilian and he lived every close to Kanchipuram. Scholars, who analysed the life-style and arts of the people of the Tamil country, wrote many works on the Bharata Naatyasastra, the Carnatic music and on astrology.
But these Tamilians turned Sanskrit Scholars, instead of appreciating Thamizh, worked for the growth of Sanskrit, for reasons which may not be appropriate to be mentioned here. They called Thamizh as the language of the mortals and Sanskrit as the language of Gods. But history has punished them rightly for all that they have did, Sanskrit is no more spoken anywhere in the world now.
Though the efforts to Sanskritise Tamil no longer exist, the repercussions of those earlier efforts are still felt in society. One effect, of course, was the virulent opposition to the use of Sanskrit words in Tamil, and this opposition has not subsided even today. This could be one reason why Tamilians still refuse to accept North Indian Languages.
vasanthan.b@rediffmail.com posted by Vasanthan
42 comments:
Mr. If you do not much about life of 24th Tirthankar Mahaveera then at least do not spread lies. In your article named "Temples converted to Vedic" you said Mahaveera ate meat, have you ever checked validity of such baseless statement.The scriptures where it is mentioned is not at all authentic, it is simply an conspiracy of some vedic brahmans who help in dividing Jainism into Shwetambara and Digambara after 12 year famine period and forced and manipulated many Jain practices to form Shwetambara sect of Jainism which in order to show its unreal originality manipulated various texts of Jainism and included wrong facts and conversations like between Gosala and Mahavera which never happened after kevalya of Mahaveer , this was one of the major reason why Digambara sect, original ancient sect started from Adi-Bhagwan, declared that Agamas or canonical texts are lost during famine though they were knowing reasonable part of it. So for sake of all 24 Tirthankara make correction about it and spread awareness. Jai Jinendra.
It is not matter of young or old.When the Arayans came to India Dravadians were speaking Tamil.When the arayans introduced their gods to dravidians sanskrist was introduced as well.This is why the mantras are in sanskrit not in Tamil.
Sathyaraj
Sanskrit is one of the official languages of India and is popularly known as a classical language of the country. It is considered as the mother of all Tamillanguages. It belongs to the Indic group of language family of Indo-European and its descendants which are Indo-Iranian & Indo Aryan. The meaning of Sanskrit is refined, decorated or produced in perfect form.
Sanskrit is a official language of Uttrakandh,India.There are only 14,000 speakers for this language at the moment.Its Indo European language close relative of Iranian languages.While Tamil was found in Godawari river basin in peninsular of India.It descends from Proto Dravidian which was spoken in 3rd millennium .Tamil is declared as a Classical language of Indian government in 2004.According to 2001 survey there were 1863 News Papers published in Tamil.
Tamil is the oldest language than sanskrit.Most words in sanskrit is been taken from tamil language.
Tamil and Sanskrit are like husband and wife.Both of them are from entirely different background.
Revised versions will have influence from one another, like sons and daughters.
Namaste. So, now - after reading the article - I see that beautiful Tamil culture has very ancient roots. If the author says that Aryans brought Sanskrit to Tamil land, it doesn't mean that Tamil is necessary older.. It only means that before Sanskrit became known in Tamil land, there was own language already in place. Anyone who reads your article with unbiased mind would make the same conclusion which I did.. If you want to know which language is "older", well, first what is the point of knowing it? Before embarking on a task of investigation one must be clear about possible benefits.. If the goal is pomp and self-exhibition then better leave this topic of "who's language is older".. Sanskrit is excellent language for those who are interested in Spirituality, in Culture. If Tamil is equally excellent I'm very happy for the author of the article, as well as for all people of Tamil Nadu.
Sai Ram
I enjoyed reading a few things here. My two cents is that one should not say whether Sanskrit is older or Tamil is older. One can safely say that they are separate and that they were influenced one another. Because of the majority of Indians are not aware of the structure os Tamil and south Indian languages, they think Sanskrit is the basis of all Indian languages.
Being practical, I would take whatever I can read and understand. Because my mother tongue is Tamil and I could read the good books of Thirukkural, Nalladiyar etc etc, I feel fortunate even to the extent that others are not so fortunate. But then I should hurry up and accept that many who know Sanskrit may jus feel the same way! Again hurrying up, even the Languages in Africa, which did not have a written for until recently, have wise sayings and knowledge buit withing their speech to give a very robust moral foundations to support a sound and loving family.
Mani
There is no trace of dravidians around the world. Dravidian means South India. Sanskrit existed thru 500 bc. Keep your post yourself.
I think there is no need to fight with words for proving the oldness of Sanskrit and Tamil. A language is only for expressing the feeling of one's mind. Basically a language is brought out depending on several conditions of a region like the location of the region, the enveronment of the region etc. That is why different regions have different types of language.
At the end it is nice to say that Tamil and Sanskrit are the two KINGS of language - one's Kingdom is South India and another's Kingdon is North India. Moreover, maintaining the purity of any language is very inportent.
Google 'Aryan Invasion Theory' to find that it's disputed by reputed universities and historians. It's just a dream, a convenient distortion of reality that you fellows like to see. That people up north,west and east are outsiders and they'r a threat to your culture. But love it or hate it, we all share common roots and ancestry. We all are from this very land. Tamil has 40% sanskrit words. So, before you blab around and spread divide among people, please care to go through what the state of the art research has to say about your convenient hypothesis: 'WRONG'. Yes, let me spell it out for you: THE INVASION THEORY HAS BEEN DISPROVED. To know more, simply google 'aryan invasion theory'. Jai Hind!
My Dear brothers and sisters!
It is hard to explain everything here, so
Please use Google engine or You tube to search get the fair information
Ancient Tamil :--->
1. Lemuria continent (Ancient kingdom of Tamil)
2. Tamil Brahmi ( Origin of Tamil Script)
3. Sangam Tamil literature (Origin and richness of Tamil)
4. Tamil Siddhargal (Ancient Tamil Scholars/Saints)
5. Angkor Wat (Big Temple built during Tamils dynasty in
Cambodia, still exist)
6. Tamil Temples ( Build for worship in ancient period)
7. Chola dynasty ( Great Tamil king ruled about all Asia)
Modern Tamil:--->
8. Modern Tamil literature (Tamil Movies, songs, etc.. at present Tamilnadu)
9. Tamil diaspora ( Tamil Origin people at present living around 30 countries)
10. List of countries where Tamil is an official language (at present ~ 9 countries )
I hope it is useful, I know only little about Sanskrit, it was almost dead language because of less population and it was used in ancient time in temples for prayer.
Tamil is not just a language, it's knowledge and art, almost all the indian languages has the trace of sanskrit except tamil, Etymologists have proven the existence of tamil was since 2BCE, Oldest tamil scriptures like tholkappiyam still survives, Tamil is one the oldest classical language surviving in the world, Tamil is one of the richest literatures in the world. Science and inventions can't be fake. Please don't deny guys. Tamil is divided into 3: Old tamil (Tamil brahmi) Middle tamil and Modern tamil, Just go through the variations and corruptions in the Modern tamil.
Aryans came to india to spread their culture, The existence of aryans is not older than tamil,
Aryans introduced their gods and goddesses to indians and there came sanskrit through mantras, Even the tamil brahmins developed faith in their sanskrit mantras.
This is how tamil was pulled back by others and tamilians as well.
I would say again... Tamil is not just a language, it's an art and knowledge and culture.
By knowing the ages of languages we may not gain anything, but the fact is... Truth can even be hidden but shouldn't be modified and killed.
The truth about tamil is not only hidden it's getting killed. Sanskrit has adopted more than 40% of tamil words, Tamil has only given raise to languages never stole words from other languages. Accept or deny, Fact is that, Go google or wiki. Just type TAMIL, more than enough to know it's origin. People are keen in destroying a language, nativity and culture, Our country will be losing a part of it, which is a sign of decline not progress. Lets put our effort in eradicating corruptions in our country rather than removing healthier parts of our nation. Leave all ego stuffs and work for our country's progress. We all are indians, Vande Mataram!!!
Hi ,
which language is older is not important here .. Tamil came for bhakthi , Sanskrit has values of life . In Tamil you don't have alphabets to spell 'Dha' , 'Ga' , since it is not ment for communication , I doesn't mean , we can't communicate in Tamil. Sanskrit , Tamil are not different culture but they are interconnected. Agastiar is the originator for Tamil , but we have may Sanskrit works by him also. Agastair resides in Treta yuga(in Ramayana) . but before that the world as existed . After each yuga , we have landspace changes , the world gets recreated . Hence we can trace only what happened in Kali yuga only.
for ur knowledge.. the older language of the world is 'தமிழ்மொழி'did "ழ" exist in any language???
if not exist so plz take note tht tamizh is older than sanskrit
I had never heard about any Sanskrit kingdoms or anything in history, please some one throw light on this. And also came to know like Sanskrit language doesn't has any written letter, not sure about the roomer it was said like it borrowed the letters from Hindi. That has a reason, because it was considered as a deva basha. So mortals don't have to learn that. In turn that also has a meaning, since it has many great things that should not go to wrong hands. Which might make bad things happen on this earth. Hope that already started happening. One language grown along with the humans and another one was used only for particular purpose, which is now meaning less now.
i think is utter waste to quarrel on which language is the oldest , see the English , it is the latest and still rule the world , and even tamilians own it. you will see now every house hold mother and father will do every effort to get their children to learn english
everyone must know the first scientist of the universe. it is mayan(small ma)mayan who lived in the islands of south tamilnadu(those islands were destroyed now)he wrote aintiram a scientific literature which says about the creation of the universe.it comes with 5 chapters and 1.moolam,2.seelam,3.kaalam,4.kolam,5.gnaalam. he also wrote a grammer note with aintiram.but now it is not available. he also wrote a eloborate explanation of aintiram it is called pirazhnava. in this book he mentioned how this 5 factors influence human in their skills. and how the energy stored in the house helps human to live harmonious life.1.iyal,2.isai,3.nadanam,4.kattadam. so it was called naanmarai. mayan started the first tamil sangam around 10000bc. aintiram book was published by tamilnadu govt in 1986. and pirazhnava is published in 2006.
Mr maxvam English is a beggar language. But Tamil & Sanskrit are legendary languages. Even Greek & Latin cannot touch the pride of these languages.
Then How come Raja Raja Chola name has 'ja' when there is no 'ja' in tamizh. The british tried to divide India by this bogus Aryan-Dravidian theory.Bharathiyas exist in India for milliions of years . Sage Agasthya met Lord Rama in the Treta yuga.
Whole India was talking in Tamil,then came Aryan invasion.Aryan speaks 30 percent only of their Sanskrit language and borrow 70 percent of Tamil language.Aryan claims their Sanskrit language is language of Hindu gods through temple prayers and this is whole propaganda made by this Aryan.Sanskrit no longer speaks.duplicate sankrit shall never last.there is no defeat to Tamil language.Tamil language always win.there is no beginning no end to Tamil language.
I also agree your claims. Please go through these videos if you hadn't.
Some facts to prove that Kundalini Yoga is from tamils:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pRVJy-2BwDk
Some facts on Tamils religion "Aaseevagam"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6omKaHFCQY
Some facts on the origin of temples
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_txmD95yCLM
Some True research facts on how old tamil is(This video is in tamil, do see it if u understand tamil):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_d8BFQ1DIc
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemuria_(continent) :
Lemuria /lɨˈmjʊəriə/[1] is the name of a hypothetical "lost land" variously located in the Indian and Pacific Oceans. The concept's 19th-century origins lie in attempts to account for discontinuities in biogeography; however, the concept of Lemuria has been rendered obsolete by modern theories of plate tectonics. Although sunken continents do exist – like Zealandia in the Pacific as well as Mauritia[2] and the Kerguelen Plateau in the Indian Ocean – there is no known geological formation under the Indian or Pacific Oceans that corresponds to the hypothetical Lemuria.[3]
Though Lemuria is no longer considered a valid scientific hypothesis, it has been adopted by writers involved in the occult, as well as some Tamil writers of India. Accounts of Lemuria differ, but all share a common belief that a continent existed in ancient times and sank beneath the ocean as a result of a geological, often cataclysmic, change, such as pole shift.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kumari_Kandam
Kumari Kandam (Tamil: குமரிக்கண்டம்) refers to a hypothetical lost continent with an ancient Tamil civilization, located south of present-day India, in the Indian Ocean. Alternative names and spellings include Kumarikkantam and Kumari Nadu.
In the 19th century, a section of the European and American scholars speculated the existence of a submerged continent called Lemuria, to explain geological and other similarities between Africa, India and Madagascar. A section of Tamil revivalists adapted this theory, connecting it to the Pandyan lands lost to the ocean, as described in ancient Tamil and Sanskrit literature. According to these writers, an ancient Tamil civilization existed on the Lemuria, before it was lost to the sea in a catastrophe. In the 20th century, the Tamil writers started using the name "Kumari Kandam" to describe this submerged continent. Although the Lemuria theory was later rendered obsolete by the continental drift theory, the concept remained popular among the Tamil revivalists of the 20th century. According to them, Kumari Kandam was the place where the first two Tamil literary academies (sangams) were organized during the Pandyan reign. They claimed Kumari Kandam as the cradle of civilization to prove the antiquity of Tamil language and culture.
Adi Sankara was not a tamilian. But he was a KERALITE(malayali)
Very well said. Tamil is the oldest language as it doesn't have JA, HA, GA, SHA etc. And there is no line above the script as seen in Sanskrit. But today Telugu is heavily mixed in Tamil due to the Idiot box. Media is ignorant.
Thirukuraral is not having any religious content, it is created by human for human wellness. There are so many old Tamil literature is not created around religion.
So Understand that Tamils never were hinuds, however tamils were just tamils, they had their own gods, such as Indira, Murgua, Kotrravai,Vishnu,Muni (Muni later called as Siva) etc... these gods were not worshipped in north part of india.
Since Sanskrits wanted to rule every part of our land, they spoiled Indira god in Krishna Story, and they said Krishna is nothing but Vishnu. They said Rama is nothing but visnu.
Tamil were developed for many years and still in use. But Sanskrit created with high features than other languages, hence it was complex, hence they said it is only for genius, a god language.
however any complex language will not stay, anything created purposefully has end date. anything created naturally has no end date, but the transform.
People studies Sanskrit has to be genius because it was unnecessarily complex. were as Tamil language it self genius, so anybody can use it.
Sanskrit is on its climax, tamil is living and adopting.
However Sanskrits impact is still exists in many languages, but that doesnt mean that they were created from sanskrit.
Today we include more English words in tamil, it is not wrong, it is nature. So tamil will adopt some of the english words, but this doesnt mean that tamil is created from english.
Compare to tamil English is dominating in technology, so for tamils English is also important. however to enjoy the language features such as Reading, writing, Singing, Poet etc.. Tamil is enjoyable for tamils.
Another note, in internet also tamil has adopted well, we have recently done a study about usage of local languages in social media, Tamil typing users are more than other languages in India.
Lord Siva created Tamil and gave to Agathiyar. Agathiyar is the oldest siddhar and Tamil also so old as Agathiyar.
mandras are not belong to tamilans.... after ariyans came mantras were introduced.... some of them are saying.... tamilan needed some other slang to hide their special slogams or secure their slogam so they were introduced Sanskrit... so from nw days also top people only knws sanskri... nt everyone... I don't know this is true or not
Malayalam is the language from 8 th century
Tamil is a derived language of Kannada
Calm your tits guys! I don't care If you say Sanskrit Loses or Tamil Wins. What matters is which is better! All of us know the answer to that! Sanskrit's Literature with Epics of Mahabharat Ramayan Abhigyan Shakuntala etc! and its evergreen grammar. Nothing as perfect as Her Grammar. Thank rishi Paanini of Gandhar for improvised and simpler version of the language! Tamil on the other hand lacks few important Vyanjanani! The script for vedic sanskrit had "surani" i.e. a rhythemic tone. in Vedanta it is written that Vedas were first passed down generation by "Shruti" i.e Just hearing and practice. the first ever written Rigveda found was in 1500 bce. and major universities like Heidelberg, Germany are saying that its grammar and sentence composition was so perfect that there was no way that it did not have a previous version. what I'm sayng is that vedic sanskrit is much older than tamil. but it was so difficult for common public to understand the a simplification was needed! Anyway, Guys believe me or not, I'm convinced that Sanskrtam is the oldest of all!
Meaning of Sanskrit is "refined"... Which itself is a proof that it was refined form of an earlier language, which is nothing but Tamil. Semmaikirukkal. Many Tamil words were borrowed and refined into Sanskrit words.
Your statements contradict your own claim buddy. Language is a medium of communication. But you say that vedic Sanskrit Needed to be simplified. Funny.
The very name samskridh means refined one. For something to be refines, there needs to exist a predecessor. In this case its Tamil. Hope you stop seeing things from just one side and see it from a neutral pov
Your statements contradict your own claim buddy. Language is a medium of communication. But you say that vedic Sanskrit Needed to be simplified. Funny.
The very name samskridh means refined one. For something to be refines, there needs to exist a predecessor. In this case its Tamil. Hope you stop seeing things from just one side and see it from a neutral pov
first of all, Aryan and Dravidian theories are well set by those western idiots who dont dont know to live a life. cleverly splitted us into two groups, we Indians should not be united is their ultimate aim.
Sanskrit is the language created by
tamils to secure their secrets of science, architecture, astronomy, etc...
whether tamil or Sanskrit, we are the living here, no one spotted here or moved from north to south
When people say mantras, can some one explain what is the meaning of all mantras. To my understanding it is all praising the god nothing else. The suthras are just the engineering knowledge over the years compiled in one form. If you look at how the temples, water storage, land division are done then you see the suthras play. But again every region had it is own sutras. Example the Mayan dynasty build structures which cant be build without the engineering knowledge. But has it been documented ?. If documented then it will be like any sutras. So claiming Sanskrit as deva bhasa and saying it has all knowledge of universe is all just diverting people and giving undue advantage to some sect of people.In puranas, what ever Indira does is pardoned but the same did by Asuras are punished. Is that then questions Gods justice system. Even if you accept Puranas why did they first agree to churn the ocean with asuras and give amruth to devas only, is it not injustice. So the puranas and vedas are well crafted to suit the purpose of domination. But in Tamil we dont have such things, which shows it is just a language which was not created for any dominance. So Tamil would have been the basic of all.
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